Epson 4000 vs Epson 4880

[Porsche917]

I have had an Epson 4000 printer for five years; and during that time period, Epson has updated their 4000 series printer twice.
For those of you who have used the Epson 4880 -- and I have not --do you believe that it is significantly better than the Epson 4000?
Additionally, since Epson has recently updated their other wide format printers, do you think that the Epson 4880 is likely to be updated
between now and January 2010?

I am leaning toward buying a new Epson 4000 series printer. But, if Epson is on the cusp of updating their 4000 series printer, I would
prefer to wait and buy the new product, not the older one.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Best regards,

Roman

[Royce Howland]

Yes... I would say the 4880 (which I own) is significantly better. Of course one man's "significant" is another man's "take it or leave it". IMO the new print head design combined with the K3 Vivid Magenta inkset deliver relatively high speed, fantastic detail, wonderful color range, excellent B&W tonality & neutrality, and minimal bronzing/metamerism/etc. Off-hand I think all that the 4880 suffers from compared to the 4000 is the pain of physically swapping the PK & MK blacks inks, if that matters to you.

But otherwise the 4880 carries over the strong media compatibility, paper handling methods, and so on that make it a very good 17" roll-fed desktop model. Only the Canon iPF 5100 is a direct competitor, with Epson's own new 3880 being a non-roll-feed alternative as well. The 4880 can't be squarely beat without jumping up to the 24" or larger models from Epson, Canon or HP.

While anything is possible, I suspect it is remains unlikely the 4880 will be updated soon... at least not in a significant way. It's not clear at all that the new x900 series will be rolled down into the 17" desktop models. The 3880 was only just recently announced, and the 4880 still isn't suffering from major competitive pressure, or from its own glaring issues (other than the perennial Epson issues of PK/MK swap and clogging). Finally, the x900 models are not outright replacing the x880 models in the 24" and larger sizes; Epson is targeting them at somewhat different applications, where it's not clear that a 17" desktop model makes sense.

But that's just an educated guess on my part. Probably nobody outside of Epson execs and perhaps some testers NDA'ed 9 ways from Sunday know anything solid about new product release plans. I have not even seen any good rumors, mostly just people asking questions if there are any rumors.

IMO if you need or want to get off of your 4000, the 4880 certainly would be a good investment, even if it is replaced in Q1 2010...

[Cynthia Crawford]

I've had the 4000 for years now too. Have thought of getting the 3800 or 3880 for the new inks and because I don't know how much longer the 4000 will be supported. I don't think you have to switch cartridges with the 3800/3880. If you don't need roll paper, it is a pretty good option- pretty much the same printer as the 4800/4880. . Except, the one thing that stops me- those tiny cartridges. Grrr. Epson makes their money selling ink.

My 4000 is still a great workhorse, knock on wood. I bought it used from a local printer for $750, so it doesn't owe me anything. I had a refurb 3000 which also worked great. I was told refurb gets the bugs out and you get a better deal. Just some thoughts.

There are 2 good forums on Yahoo for these printers- Epson 4000/4800/4880, and Large-format printers. Lots of tips and tricks- they discuss them all.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Epson4000/
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers

There are rebates on the 3800 ($300) and 4880 ($500) until 10/31. Yikes-not much time!)

good luck!

I have had an Epson 4000 printer for five years; and during that time period, Epson has updated their 4000 series printer twice.
For those of you who have used the Epson 4880 -- and I have not --do you believe that it is significantly better than the Epson 4000?
Additionally, since Epson has recently updated their other wide format printers, do you think that the Epson 4880 is likely to be updated
between now and January 2010?

I am leaning toward buying a new Epson 4000 series printer. But, if Epson is on the cusp of updating their 4000 series printer, I would
prefer to wait and buy the new product, not the older one.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Best regards,

Roman

[E.J. Peiker]

3800's are getting hard to find. the 3880 does use different inks or at least it adds the Vivid Magenta - not sure if the other carts are the same.

[Cynthia Crawford]

Not only are they hard to find, they cost more new, even with a rebate, than the 3880! I wonder how long Epson is going to support the 3800...

3800's are getting hard to find. the 3880 does use different inks or at least it adds the Vivid Magenta - not sure if the other carts are the same.

[Martin 095]

Roman,

I just purchased a 4880 back at the end of September - Epson ran two rebates that basically knocked $850 (a $350 rebate in addition to the $500 rebate mentioned above) off the list price, which made it very reasonably priced (under $1k - less than a 3880 and only slightly higher than a new 3800 with its rebate). However, I till don't have my printer - Epson is having a hard time delivering enough printers to dealers from what I have heard. Epson will tell you that they have plenty of the portrait and RIP models around but I went with the basic printer since neither of the higher end models offered me anything I needed. Anyway, I don't know if this is because they underestimated how many people would take them up on their rebate offer or because they are about to release a newer model and thus had only a few 4880 in stock (I thought this was more likely the case). FWIW, the rebates made buying the 4880 over a 3800 (or 3880) a no-brainer in my mind (my current printer is a 2200).

Good luck - and I don't know if this was mentioned in previous posts but among the differences between the 3880 and 4880 is that you sacrifice the ease of switching between PB and MB (done automatically without changing cartridges on the 3880) for the ability to use roll paper (4880).

PS - my favorite car is the 911 but a dream is as close as I will come to owning one. My GTI is the only German machine I can afford

[Bill Harbin]

Yes... I would say the 4880 (which I own) is significantly better. Of course one man's "significant" is another man's "take it or leave it". IMO the new print head design combined with the K3 Vivid Magenta inkset deliver relatively high speed, fantastic detail, wonderful color range, excellent B&W tonality & neutrality, and minimal bronzing/metamerism/etc. Off-hand I think all that the 4880 suffers from compared to the 4000 is the pain of physically swapping the PK & MK blacks inks, if that matters to you.

But otherwise the 4880 carries over the strong media compatibility, paper handling methods, and so on that make it a very good 17" roll-fed desktop model. Only the Canon iPF 5100 is a direct competitor, with Epson's own new 3880 being a non-roll-feed alternative as well. The 4880 can't be squarely beat without jumping up to the 24" or larger models from Epson, Canon or HP.

While anything is possible, I suspect it is remains unlikely the 4880 will be updated soon... at least not in a significant way. It's not clear at all that the new x900 series will be rolled down into the 17" desktop models. The 3880 was only just recently announced, and the 4880 still isn't suffering from major competitive pressure, or from its own glaring issues (other than the perennial Epson issues of PK/MK swap and clogging). Finally, the x900 models are not outright replacing the x880 models in the 24" and larger sizes; Epson is targeting them at somewhat different applications, where it's not clear that a 17" desktop model makes sense.

But that's just an educated guess on my part. Probably nobody outside of Epson execs and perhaps some testers NDA'ed 9 ways from Sunday know anything solid about new product release plans. I have not even seen any good rumors, mostly just people asking questions if there are any rumors.

IMO if you need or want to get off of your 4000, the 4880 certainly would be a good investment, even if it is replaced in Q1 2010...

Royce - above you refer to "its own glaring issues" for the 4880. Could you tell me what those issues are? I have been using the 4800 for 3 yrs now and am tired of the constant head clogging so I was going to get either the 3880 or the 4880. I am trying to decide which to get, both seem reasonable in price. The 3880 has AccuPhoto HD2 and 4880 has AccuPhoto HD - is that a siginificant difference? I do not use roll paper and rarely use matte so neither of these is an issue for me. If they are essentially equivalent then I would go with the 3880 because of size. Any info on this that you could give would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Bill

[Royce Howland]

Bill, sorry I was a bit confusing in the wording. My point was it isn't suffering from glaring issues, other than PK/MK swap and clogging as mentioned. By "not suffering" I meant not suffering in sales or other pressures that would conceivably force Epson to change quickly. I'm sure the printer will be upgraded but it will be in Epson's own good time based on their development roadmap -- whenever that is. I don't perceive anything that indicates it's imminent, but who knows... it could be next week.

The 4880 is the dominant heavy duty 17" desktop unit; an easy statement to make since it's one of only 2 such models. Its only direct competitor from another company, the Canon iPF5xxx, probably hasn't put much fear into Epson yet at this point. The only other competitor is the 38xx, and I'm sure Epson is equally happy to sell it too, because they likely make most of their printer business unit profit on ink, paper and service contracts anyway.

If you don't ever use roll paper, there's not much reason to look at the 4880 over the 3880. The 4880 probably could maintain a heavier printing duty cycle and perhaps may have a few more job control features, I don't know for sure. But for light to medium load the 3880 would be a good workhorse... and it truly has no direct competition from anyone.

I don't know that "AccuPhoto" is much to get concerned about, whichever version of it. I think it's just a fancy marketing name for "our printers make nice looking prints."

Re: clogging, there have been some advances with the xx80 and x900 Epson models, but if your environment & printing load is such that clogging is a major problem now, there is a good chance it will still be a problem later. In this range of printer, Epson does not have any anti-clogging technology similar to what Canon or HP have done. That will be a major innovation for Epson, whenever they get around to it.

[Cynthia Crawford]

Royce wrote:

"If you don't ever use roll paper, there's not much reason to look at the 4880 over the 3880. The 4880 probably could maintain a heavier printing duty cycle and perhaps may have a few more job control features, I don't know for sure. But for light to medium load the 3880 would be a good workhorse... and it truly has no direct competition from anyone."

I keep wondering about the cartridge issue- 3880 only takes 80ml cartridges as opposed to up to 220ml for the 4000 and 4800/4880. Is it more efficient using ink? I would hope so, but I doubt it. That means replacing cartridges early and often, not to mention, if you will, a lot more environmental waste. If the 3880 does what the 4000 does when it comes to running a cleaning cycle....aargh is all I can say. I might have a cartridge that is still useable, but the printer saysthere isn't enough ink in it to do a cleaning cycle (which might be necessary, if, as is often the case, something is clogged.) So you have to throw away that cartridge with ink still in it in order to correct a clog (which is usually not the color you have to replace) .

Oops- sorry- this just triggered my pet peeve with Epson....probably redundant. BUT, if this happens with a new 3880, I'd be even more upset.

Anyone know about ink usage in this machine?

[jgunning]

Cynthia,

I have an Epson 4800 and of course the same type of message comes up about the cartridge not having enough ink to do a cleaning cycle. I change the cartridge, do the cleaning cycle, and then resume printing. I save the low ink cartridge and at some point I take out the newly placed cartridge and replace it with the low ink one. The printer will look at the cartridge and then show the remaining ink. (usually about 4-6ml) The printer will happily continue to print with the low ink cartridge until it finally runs out. I then put in the fresh cartridge and continue printing. This can even occur in the middle of a print with no adverse effects that I have ever seen.

Jim Gunning

[Cynthia Crawford]

Hey, that's great, Jim. I thought it would confuse the ink counter to do that. I guess it can read the amount that's in whatever cartridge you insert? Darn- I have sooo many old cartridges with a little ink left in them- haven't thrown them away -looking for a place to recycle or someone who wants them for CIS refills. I suspect they are too old to revive. Anyway, I appreciate the advise- will DO this next time.

Thanks so much.

Cynthia

Cynthia,

I have an Epson 4800 and of course the same type of message comes up about the cartridge not having enough ink to do a cleaning cycle. I change the cartridge, do the cleaning cycle, and then resume printing. I save the low ink cartridge and at some point I take out the newly placed cartridge and replace it with the low ink one. The printer will look at the cartridge and then show the remaining ink. (usually about 4-6ml) The printer will happily continue to print with the low ink cartridge until it finally runs out. I then put in the fresh cartridge and continue printing. This can even occur in the middle of a print with no adverse effects that I have ever seen.

Jim Gunning

[jgunning]

Cynthia,

Hard to tell how old is too old. I'd try some of the more recent ones. Give the cart a gentle agitation, put it in and make sure the printer recognizes it. Then do a nozzle check or two to ensure it feeds OK. It may work.

Jim Gunning

[signgrap]

Cynthia,

Hard to tell how old is too old. I'd try some of the more recent ones. Give the cart a gentle agitation, put it in and make sure the printer recognizes it. Then do a nozzle check or two to ensure it feeds OK. It may work.

Jim Gunning

A nozzle check is unlikely to tell you anything because all the ink in the tubing is going to be printed before the ink in the "old" cart makes it way to the print head. If the ink doesn't flow at all you will probably see a problem but short of that you might not see anything till the old ink hits the print head. OTOH using the more recent carts should work fine.

[Sven Bernert]

I have an Epson 4800 and of course the same type of message comes up about the cartridge not having enough ink to do a cleaning cycle. I change the cartridge, do the cleaning cycle, and then resume printing. I save the low ink cartridge and at some point I take out the newly placed cartridge and replace it with the low ink one. The printer will look at the cartridge and then show the remaining ink. (usually about 4-6ml) The printer will happily continue to print with the low ink cartridge until it finally runs out. I then put in the fresh cartridge and continue printing. This can even occur in the middle of a print with no adverse effects that I have ever seen.

Good advice! Thanks Jim.